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The White House slams House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for not coming to the negotiating table; New caravan of Honduran migrants heads towards the

January 17, 2019

xfdls THE-FIVE-01

<Show: THE FIVE>

<Date: January 16, 2019>

<Time: 17:00>

<Tran: 011601cb.258>

<Type: Show>

<Head: The White House slams House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for not coming to

the negotiating table; New caravan of Honduran migrants heads towards the

United States; DNC drops Women’s March sponsorship. - Part 1>

<Sect: News; Domestic>

<Byline: Dana Perino, Lisa Boothe, Juan Williams, Brian Kilmeade, Tyrus,

Steve Harrigan>

<Spec: White House; Democrats; Republicans; Government; Nancy Pelosi;

Donald Trump; Honduran; Immigration; United States; DNC; Women’s March>

DANA PERINO, THE FIVE CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I’m Dana Perino along with Lisa Boothe, Juan Williams, Brian Kilmeade, and Tyrus. It’s 5 o’clock in New York City. And this is The Five.

It’s day 26 of the shutdown and there is still no deal insight to get parts of the government back up and running. This morning, the president once again blasted Democrats in a clear sign he’ll be using the shutdown as a 2020 issue. The White House also slamming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her party for not coming to the negotiating table.


SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Democrats have to be willing to do something. So far, they’ve been willing to do nothing but obstruct. And that’s not going to fix the problem. It’s not going to open the government. They claim to care about federal workers, but they’ve been so busy hanging out on the beaches of Puerto Rico at heading Broadway shows.

The president asked Nancy Pelosi directly. She keeps claiming that you have to open the government before we can negotiate. And he asked her point blank, if I open the government, will you work with me and give me border security funding, including the wall. And she said no.


PERINO: Meanwhile, Pelosi is facing backlash from Republicans for urging the president to delay his State of the Union address on January 29 until after the shutdown ends citing security concerns.


SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: It’s a special security event. This is a housekeeping matter in the Congress of the United States, so that we can honor the responsibility of the invitation we extended to the president. He can make it from the Oval Office.


PERINO: Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, she is pushing back, saying that the Secret Service is prepared to secure the State of the Union. Brian, welcome.


PERINO: So glad you’re here. I have a question for you. I mean, the Democrats have to realize that the Republicans are going to get something out of this negotiation, right? At some point, don’t they realize that they’re not going to get everything, but they have to give a little something?

KILMEADE: Well, it’s really simple. This is not something you have to unwind. It’s not comprehensive immigration reform where you’re thinking about DACA and the border and border agents. It really comes down to this. There’s got to be some money not for a border wall, a border barrier. You have slats, you got steel, you got improvements.

PERINO: So much security.

KILMEADE: So they put together this letter. Lindsey Graham puts together a letter with Joe Manchin, Chris Coons, and some others. And they say listen. This is a draft of it. Mr. President, open up the government for three weeks. At which time, we’re going to sit down for three and a half weeks. And we’ll debate, we’ll vote on investments at the southern border that are necessary, effective, and appropriate to accomplish its goals.

Nothing in there says we guarantee you some money for a border barrier. That’s all he needs. He needs between 2.5 and 3.5 for us to get back to business as normal. And why don’t they just approach that and they could say we’ve got the president because he’s not getting his 5.8 billion. We got the president because he’s not getting his 2,000-mile wall. He gave in there. And therefore, they get a chance to...

PERINO: And they could talk about other things he’s been offering like h1b visa holders getting citizenship.

KILMEADE: I think it’s on the table.

PERINO: OK. Juan, Nancy Pelosi today using one of the tools in her toolbox to say I don’t think the State of the Union is a good idea right now.

JUAN WILLIAMS, THE FIVE CO-HOST: Right. And of course, that’s her right. She is the Speaker of the House. It’s the invitation that comes from the House of Representatives to the president of the United States. I thought she was wrong to say it was about security.


WILLIAMS: Kirstjen Nielsen pushed back and said it’s possible. But it’s really not about security in my mind. What it is, is that you have the Congress, the Supreme Court, the cabinet, everybody’s there. So you want to make sure they are all safe. But I think the bigger issue is this. I think the president would do what he did in his Oval Office address on immigration, which is that he belittles the Democrats, demonizes immigrants. He goes on and on, tells lies. And then, he expects that somehow no one is going to call them on it. And if they do call him on it, they are bad folks for saying it.

To my mind, the big issue here is, you know, the president and the White House today, they said we’re going to bring back 46,000 IRS employees and not pay them. And what do you see happening at the airports, in Atlanta yesterday? Huge lines. I think at some point, and the poll showed this, the American people are saying you know what, President Trump, you are having a tantrum, which is by the way, Pelosi used. You’re having a tantrum. And you’re somehow now paralyzing the government, as if everything has to be just about you. Stop it.

PERINO: Lisa, what about the problem solvers today who went to the White House. Republicans and Democrats, it’s a group that -- they try to solve problems. They say we’re like commonsensical, we want to get past this. Do you think they’ll -- the White House said it was productive, what do you think?

LISA BOOTHE, THE FIVE CO-HOST: Well, I think the problem with the problem solvers is just the mere fact that, look, Nancy Pelosi is the one that’s going to control the schedule in the House. She’s going to control legislation moves in the House. The problem solvers are in the United States’ House, not the Senate. And Republicans also need 60 votes in the Senate. They only have 53 of the Senate, which is what makes things difficult for Republicans to try to move things forward, because what Nancy Pelosi has done with the House is passing legislation.

So she can say look, we are doing things. We are passing legislation. It’s on you now and Republicans can’t reciprocate, because they don’t have the votes in the Senate to get it done. But the reason why Nancy Pelosi doesn’t want President Trump to speak is she doesn’t want him to have an unfiltered way to speak to the American people to make his case for the wall, and also increase border security.

And the bigger problem with all of it is the fact that we are not -- this is not a policy fight, right. If you look at the issues, they agree on it. Democrats have supported fencing in the past. Republicans want physical barriers. So the difference isn’t policy. This is political. And when the difference is political, it’s much harder to come to an agreement, because with the objective is to deny something or deny him of something, it’s a lot more difficult to try to find common ground there.

PERINO: Now, Tyrus, you travel today, right. How was it?

TYRUS: Well, I got love wherever I go. I have clear -- I got diamonds, TSA passes.

PERINO: You just like walk right over there.

TYRUS: I practically work there. But it is frustrating because I won’t be getting a check. My more concern is while this is going on -- and I’ve talked to a few coast guards, and a good friend, let’s call him Uncle Louie, so he stays anonymous. The U.S. Customs Border Protection, which is a little bit different than patrol people get too confused. While this is going on, our borders, our eastern seaboard is wide open because we don’t have the manpower anymore to keep people from coming in and out. And that’s the real issue.

I don’t care whose fault it is, who said what. We are more in danger now, not just at the southern border, the entire eastern seaboard doesn’t have enough coast guards to keep our waters safe from the drug smugglers. As a matter of fact, he was telling me that they were in pursuit and they didn’t have enough manpower to catch the guy. And he literally just sailed right in. They knew they were there, but they didn’t have the bodies to go out and intercept them. That’s the real issue.

So I don’t care if he just has to do -- do whatever he has to do, you have to do the executive thing. If you have to do the nuclear option and just get the wall funding from the Pentagon, do it, because right now, we are in a more dangerous spot. Forget all these arguing and who said what, I don’t care about it. Our country is vulnerable right now because we look and we’re acting so terrible with our government. We are wide open.

WILLIAMS: That’s so interesting because one of the things that was being focused on over the weekend was the high percentage of Americans who say their lives are not impacted at the moment by the shutdown. Now, we know about the IRS thing that I mentioned earlier where the president bringing back people in other areas to try to make it seem like not such a big deal. But when you talk about the coast guard, that’s a reminder. It does have real impact.

TYRUS: And the coast guard hasn’t been paid I think twice now. It’s been a month for them because they fell on the rate when it happened. So those guys really need help. The economy is good right now, correct? We have an amazing economy. So, let’s have the Walmart, Amazon, Chick-Fil-A, the Burger King that want to talk trash about the president. Let’s have them kick in and help out these families who need help. The American citizens do our part to help the American -- the people not getting paid while the government figures this out.

KILMEADE: So, right now, for the most part, the American people think Democrats are more to blame -- excuse me, Republicans are more to blame than Democrats. My sense is as long as the president continues to say I want to talk and let’s do this, and Nancy Pelosi continues to walk the other way, and pretend it’s not an issue, that number is going to close. Until that number gets closer, I don’t think the Democrats feel as though the issue is motivating enough for them to do anything.

BOOTHE: I think Republicans and President Trump needs to do a better job at explaining the fact that Republicans and Democrats are essentially aligned in supporting a physical barrier along the southern border. I think Democrats...

KILMEADE: They said that this morning.

BOOTHE: And Democrats even off the bat, they voted for some fencing. I think there’s stipulations and limitations to what President Trump could do with that money. But Democrats are already off the gates, supported a physical structure of the southern border. So when Nancy Pelosi says that it’s immoral, that’s a joke.

And so I think President Trump needs to do a better job explaining that to the American people saying, look, we are actually on the same page. I don’t understand why Democrats don’t want to come to the table, why they’re refusing to work with me on this. We already agreed on the concept of having a physical structure along the southern border to prevent bad people or illegal immigrants from getting in.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just finish up and say to you, Brian, that in fact, the numbers are growing further apart, not getting better for the president. He’s losing support as we’ve seen over the week since this started.

KILMEADE: He’s not losing Republican support.

WILLIAMS: But Republican support, remember, is a shrinking sphere of the electorate.

BOOTHE: Increase for the wall is increasing though.

WILLIAMS: I’m sorry.

BOOTHE: Support for the wall is increasing.

WILLIAMS: No, it’s security. What it is, is security and humanitarian. So the Democrats, Lisa, have said we are all for border security.

KILMEADE: But no wall.

WILLIAMS: But the wall is inefficient, ineffective.

TYRUS: This is what is going on right now in the government. And this is why all our borders are vulnerable right now. Get it together. Get it together.

WILLIAMS: Get the Republicans together because the Ann Coulters of the world say that if Trump doesn’t do this, he doesn’t -- he loses everything.

PERINO: The president should just do what he thinks is right. I don’t think he has to worry about that. OK. A new migrant caravan heading to the U.S., we take you live on the ground next.


KILMEADE: All right. While lawmakers in Washington can’t seem to come together to keep our borders safe, you got a new caravan of Honduran migrants heading towards the United States right now. Over 2,000 people have already crossed into Guatemala and are expected to arrive in Mexico by tomorrow, isn’t that great -- where local residents are lashing out against the latest influx. They’ve seen this movie before.

Steve Harrigan is traveling with the caravan in Guatemala. Steve, they seem to be picking up steam. Two days ago, it was 600 people, now over 2,000?

STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: That’s right. It doubled in the first day alone. You can probably see some caravan members in the distance behind me. It’s not an easy walk right along this mountain road. There is no sidewalk and big trucks come whipping around those corners. We’re mainly seeing young men, groups of 5, 10, 20, making this march. They’ve got about 300 miles to go to Mexico.

There was a little slow down today for the caravan in Guatemala, the riot police were out in force. A few hundred of them with shields, helmets, wooden batons. There was no violence, but certainly, a strong presence there at the border. It doesn’t take much to get from Honduras into Guatemala. All you have to do is show your I.D. card. You don’t need a visa or a passport. So people were let through, but it did slow them down. So next, we will see what kind of reception they get in Mexico. Brian.

KILMEADE: You know, I understand that the Mexicans have fortified the border. They are ready for this, and those on the northern portions of Mexico are steeling themselves for more problems. So what is Mexico going to do different this time, Steve?

HARRIGAN: As we can see, it looks like very young men here. He looks to be about 16 or 17, most of them carrying just one sack. And strangely enough, a lot of young men that I’ve talked to had absolutely no money in their pockets, for what could be a month-long trip. One man told me today I will rely on people on the road to feed me.

We haven’t seen any handouts, we haven’t seen any financing. We have seen church kitchen soup kitchen lunches, people providing for the migrants. But largely, they’ve been on their own. It’s mainly young men, but we’ve seen some women, husbands, mothers, and small children, too, which is a really tough road.

But about the Mexican reaction, they might’ve worn out their welcome, especially around Tijuana. They’ve just shut down a major shelter there in Tijuana, just as another caravan is coming. And these caravans are getting bigger and faster. We don’t know how big this one’s going to get. It’s about 2,000, but it could go to 7,000, 10,000, or 15,000. There are two more scheduled.

So now, the waves are getting closer and closer together, because I think these caravans, at least here in Guatemala and in Honduras, are seen as a success. People have not been deported back home. They’ve not been thrown in jail. They have made it. So more people are joining.

BOOTHE: Hi, Steve. This is Lisa Boothe. Have you spoken to any migrants and what’s the reasoning they’ve told you of why they are making this trip? Is it seeking employment, family reunification, what are the reasons that they gave you?

HARRIGAN: I think it’s the same for parents with small children and these young people. They just don’t have jobs, don’t have money, especially in Honduras. There is -- there’s such a sense of desperation that they say we’re not going back and we have no choice. We are going to get in the U.S. one way or another. If we can find work in Mexico for a while, great, but we are going. There is nothing here for us.

And to set off with no money in your pocket or to set up with a 2-year-old like the woman we talked to today, things have to be pretty bad in Honduras to do that to walk to the U.S.

WILLIAMS: Steve, you know, what we hear from the president is talk about diseased people, terrorists, gangsters, MS-13 and the like. What are you seeing on the ground?

HARRIGAN: We saw today the Guatemalan police check IDs and they did arrest several people, including an interest of someone who was a rapist of a minor. So I think, you know, perhaps anywhere in the world you go, where you have groups of thousands of people, you’re going to have bad actors. And there were certainly some who tried to cross the border in the Guatemala today and the Guatemalan police arrested several of them.


PERINO: Steve, are the Hondurans unwilling or unable to help the conditions on the ground in their own country?

HARRIGAN: You know, it’s pretty startling to see just the conditions people are in there. The way homes are built, the way roads are built, the way things are run there. I think there’s a sense of despair and hopelessness. And, Charles, if you can turn around, these are not -- you know, you’re weak, you’re poor, and you’re needy. These are young, vigorous men looking for work most of them.

And they are willing to make a tremendous effort to undergo 3,000 miles, a lot of them on foot, a lot with nothing. These are people who are taking this incredibly difficult trip just because things are so bad. I think the fact that they are leaving tells you about how bad things are in Honduras. If you’re willing to get on the road with no money in your pocket just to get out, that’s a bad place.

TYRUS: This is Tyrus here. I have a question, the general morale. Are they chasing -- when you talk with them, are they talking about the American dream, are they talking about jobs, are they excited? Is it like, hey, we’re getting ready for new beginning and a new life or is it more of a sense of fleeing?

HARRIGAN: You know, I think, especially among the young -- this is early in the caravan, but I think there is a sense of hope and excitement. I think they look to the U.S. as a place where they can find work and achieve what they want, where things work, where if they work hard, they can get something. I think with the older people, there is a lot more fear because they have their children to defend and take care of, along with a very difficult route.

But the mood is jaunty at this point among the young people we’ve seen so far, even sleeping outside at night on the sidewalks. They are fired up to get to the U.S.

KILMEADE: All right. Steve Harrigan, thanks so much.

PERINO: Good report.

KILMEADE: Steve Harrigan out in the middle of the...

PERINO: He’s amazing.

KILMEADE: Yeah, triangle. He’s incredible, too. Too bad they don’t know the road to getting refugee status. That would be the right way -- that would be the right way to do it. Everyone has a heart, but I think basically it comes down to, Juan, the social programs in the social fiber, are they for Americans or are they for people not even going into the immigration system?

WILLIAMS: We have an asylum process and you have a right to apply for asylum.

KILMEADE: That way?

WILLIAMS: Yeah. In other words -- in fact, the president said, you know, they can’t just cross, they’ve got to come here or there, and the court said no. Anybody who comes from desperate, destitute situations and makes a claim will be heard. That’s the American law.

So they have a right to it. I think the larger issue here for us and I think this is something Dana has drilled into my mind is, can we do something back in their home countries to help stanch this? Because it’s not that we lack heart or don’t care. I think we just see this as an increasingly, even the president calls it, a humanitarian crisis.

KILMEADE: But we are already giving them money. We are already giving them money. Maybe we could do more in terms of structure.

BOOTHE: The reason I asked Steve that question was the fact, a lot of these individuals -- I don’t blame them. I don’t blame them for wanting to come to the United States and seek asylum. But the problem is a lot of them are seeking economic opportunities and that’s not where asylum is necessarily supposed to come into play.

The problem is, the system is being gamed and that’s an issue because you have -- we’ve seen dramatic increases in families making this dangerous trip. We know at least one of three women are going to be sexually assaulted on the trip. There is violence. There is danger. Steve talked to about someone who was arrested, who was a rapist.

So this is a very dangerous trip. And so the problem is the system is being gamed. But 89 percent of people are going to pass that initial credible fear interview, but only 9 percent who actually show up in immigration courts are going to be granted asylum, yet they’ve made this journey to the United States. That’s a problem.

TYRUS: She makes a great point. I was at -- I was at the farmers’ yearly convention where the president spoke on Monday. And one of the things that got a great ovation when he talked about making it easier for people who are coming here to work.


KILMEADE: Work visas.

TYRUS: They’re making it easier to come and work, and then to go home. He spoke at great length in terms of it’s a better way to get the right people here who want to come to work. And then, they go home. They make their money and they go home. He says that process has become harder for people in this case, who are instead of claiming asylum, because they want to get here to get a job can literally -- there will be new places for them to go, and say I want to work.

I want to work this or whatever, and they make deals with the agricultural people. They come in, they work, they stay for a certain amount of time, whether six months or year or whatever the deal is. And then, they go home.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. Did you know why they applauded? Because right now, there’s a shortage of those workers. And why is there a shortage? Because we don’t have comprehensive immigration reform, we don’t have an immigration system that helps us in terms of our own economy, and the president just closes his eyes.

KILMEADE: That’s a comprehensive immigration reform. Everyone’s been unable to do it for 25 years. You can’t blame it on the president. He had the job for two years.

WILLIAMS: I think we had just two years with the Republicans in the majority in which they didn’t do anything about this or anything about comprehensive immigration.

PERINO: This is the thing. This is true all over the world. This has always been true. The only way to solve a refugee problem is to deal with the problem at its source. That’s true in Honduras...

TYRUS: Amen.

PERINO: Syria, Libya, it doesn’t matter where it is. Part of that is you have to defend yourself, right. You have to have your own border security, but at the same time, people aren’t going to stop coming. And so, do we have some sort of incentive? Is it in our national interest to do something at its source? I would argue yes.

KILMEADE: Yes. And we are doing stuff.

PERINO: Not enough.

KILMEADE: Well, how much is enough, how much money do we have?

PERINO: I think it’s not just money. I mean, this is law and order, education, capitalism and opportunity because socialism is what that destroyed this country.

KILMEADE: All right. They also have to want to help the government in control.

Meanwhile, straight ahead, the Women’s March reportedly loses a major backer over its cofounder refuses to condemn Louis Farrakhan. Will the march happen?


WILLIAMS: Welcome back. The DNC reportedly dropping its sponsorship of the Women’s March after one of the group’s leaders refused to denounce nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. Here was the heated exchange that took place today on The View.


TAMIKA MALLORY, WOMEN’S MARCH CO-PRESIDENT: I didn’t call him the greatest of all time, because of his rhetoric. I called him the greatest of all time because of what he’s done in black communities.

I don’t agree with many of Mr. Farrakhan’s statements.

MEGHAN MCCAIN, THE VIEW CO-HOST: Specifically about Jewish people.

MALLORY: As I said, I don’t agree with many of Mr. Farrakhan’s statements.

MCCAIN: Do you condemn them?

MALLORY: I don’t agree with these statements. At the end of the day...

MCCAIN: You won’t condemn it.

MALLORY: No, no, no. To be very clear, it’s not my language. It’s not the way that I speak. It is not how I organize.

I should never be judged through the lens of a man.


WILLIAMS: So what you saw, by the way, that was Monday night, not today. What you see there is representative of a larger movement away from the march by Southern Poverty Law Center, Emily’s List, Human Rights Campaign, National Abortion Rights League, Center for American Progress, all these left-leaning groups that had support of the march -- remember, they turned out millions in the immediate aftermath of the inauguration -- pulling away. What do you make of this?

LISA BOOTHE, HOST: Well, you know, credit where credit is due, right? Good for them for disassociating with the Women’s March and especially individuals who are anti-Semitic. Right?

And Meghan McCain did an awesome job in that interview in really holding her feet to the fire, Malika, and asking for an explicit condemnation, and Malika refused to give Meghan and the country that. So I think that is a big problem. And the left has a Louis Farrakhan problem.

And they also have a problem with some anti-Semites among the group. You even have Maxine Waters, who was -- you know, there’s a video recently of her hugging Louis Farrakhan. She is the chairwoman of the Financial Services Committee. It shouldn’t be that hard to condemn a guy who says that Jews are termites and compares them to Satan. It really shouldn’t be that hard.

WILLIAMS: Brian, I think a lot of people in the black community think, “Wait a second.” You know, nobody approves of Louis Farrakhan’s anti- Semitism; but Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam have always engaged poor, people in jail, and sometimes help those people in their lives.

BRIAN KILMEADE, HOST: So not saying that every person who is evil doesn’t do any good. For the most part, Farrakhan might have some attributes in the black community, but anybody who’s looking for something broad-based has to disassociate.

And for them to go on “The View” and think that they can make these statements and not be clear -- let it be known. If, for example, he does things in the black amenity, but I am pro -- I am not for his anti-Semitic behavior, his antiwhite talk. I am pro -- just get the -- get the lines down.

At the very least, she had -- was not prepared to disassociate herself. And now a program that, a march that had 550 sponsors is down to half that and might not even take place on Sunday. It’s unbelievable the -- being friends with Louis Farrakhan can destroy a life, a career, a program, and in this case, a Woman’s March. Is it worth it?