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William Barr, Trump’s Attorney General Nominee, Grilled by Senate Judiciary Committee; Day 25 of the Partial Government Shutdown; A New

January 16, 2019

xfdls THE-FIVE-01

<Show: THE FIVE>

<Date: January 15, 2019>

<Time: 17:00>

<Tran: 011501cb.258>

<Type: Show>

<Head: William Barr, Trump’s Attorney General Nominee, Grilled by Senate

Judiciary Committee; Day 25 of the Partial Government Shutdown; A New

Migrant Caravan is Heading to the South Border from Honduras; Trump Serves

Fast Food Buffet to Clemson Tigers; Gillette Ad on ‘Toxic Masculinity’

Criticized; THE FIVE Take 10-Year Challenge - Part 1>

<Sect: News; Domestic>

<Byline: Dana Perino, Juan Williams, Katie Pavlich, Jesse Watters, Greg


<Spec: William Barr; Attorney General; Senate; Government; Immigration;

Caravan; Honduras; Food; White House; Clemson Tigers; Sports; Football;

Donald Trump; Sports; Food; Consumers; Lifestyle; Advertising>


DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everyone. I am Dana Perino along with Katie Pavlich, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. It’s 5:00 in New York City and this is THE FIVE.

Fox News alert. You are looking live at the hearing of President Trump’s attorney general nominee, William Barr. Fielding questions from lawmakers on Capitol Hill, and if anything major happens in the hearing, we will take you back in there live. Barr spending most of the day attempting to reassure Democrats they have no reason to be concerned about the Mueller investigation and a previous memo he wrote about it.


WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I believe it’s vitally important that the special counsel be allowed to complete his investigation. I believe it is in the best interest of everyone, the president, Congress, and the American people, that this matter be resolved by allowing the special counsel to complete his work.

I wrote the memo as a former attorney general who has often weighed in on legal issues of public importance and I distributed broadly so that other lawyers would have the benefit of my views. My memo was narrow, explaining my thinking on a specific obstruction of justice theory under a single statute that I thought, based on media reports, the special counsel might be considering.


PERINO: But despite clearly laying out his stance, Democrats tried to hammer him on the same issue.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It look like a job application?

BARR: That’s ludicrous. If I wanted the job and was going after the job, there are many more direct ways of me bringing myself to the president’s attention than writing in the 18-page legal memorandum.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT: Will you commit to this committee that you will not allow the president or his attorneys to edit or change the special counsel report before it is submitted to Congress or the public?

BARR: I’ve already said that I would not permit editing of my report.


PERINO: And the as we’ve seen in previous hearings, Democrats also pressed the nominee about whether he would be able to stand up to President Trump.


SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: What would be your breaking point? When would you pick up and leave? When is your Jim Mattis moment when the president has asked you to do something that you think is inconsistent with your oath?

BARR: I’m not going to do anything that I think is wrong and I will not be bullied into doing anything I think is wrong by anybody, whether it be editorial boards or Congress or the president. I’m going to do what I think it’s right.


PERINO: And then I want to just play for you this other sound that was caught off camera of Senator Dianne Feinstein. You want to listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so you see this is a pretty easy road for him heading to confirmation?



PERINO: All right. So I think, you know, she is reading the tea leaves. This looks like a confirmation that might just sail through.


PERINO: What do you think of that?

GUTFELD: I get all the interest in the investigation but it’s amazing how the media and the Democrats are following the same script. Super obsessed with how this will impact Mueller. I mean, if an asteroid came and wiped out half the United States, the most important -- the lead at MSNBC and CNN will be, “How does this impact the Mueller probe?”

There are 150 million people dead but we need to know more about the Mueller probe. And then the gist is like every question is how are you going to deal with Donald Trump? So it basically boils down to this, we hate Trump. You like Trump? We hate you too.

So, he’s not applying for A.G. He’s applying to gain entrance into the Donald Trump hate club. And he’s got to like -- he’s to say all the right things. I believe there is a tree house out back for that with a secret knock.

PERINO: There might be -- you have here, Jesse, a nominee who is -- he has already been the attorney general before and in fact, when the senators were not referring to him as Mr. Barr, they would have to say general because it was the title and you hold it for the rest of your life. And he is guy who is willing to come back. He was almost going into semi- retirement. He’s willing to be a public servant. How do you think it went today?

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: I think it went really well and Juan would agree with me so he doesn’t get to speak. I believe he handled all these senators deftly and this was not a Jeff Sessions situation where he is like oh, da-da-da, da-da-da. He was very smooth and he was very direct. And everything he said was based on law.

When he was asked, you know, what would you base a recusal on? He said, the facts. And it stopped a few senators in their tracks. They want him, and I agree with Greg, they don’t want a Trumper as A.G. They want a weak A.G. They want someone that’s going to recuse at the slightest whiff of controversy and they want someone that is going to treat Mueller like a god.

And I think he kind of straddled that pretty well. He said, if there is something that’s going to happen, I will deal with it but I’m not going to abdicate my responsibility as A.G. I have an authority here and I’m going to be a strong attorney general.

But he also had said in this memo that Comey deserved to be fired and Mueller going after an obstruction case against the president was kind of on weak legal ground and Mueller shouldn’t have stacked his team with Democrats. It didn’t look good.

And he said, and I think this caught President Trump’s attention, is that there’s a lot of reasons to go after Hillary, on Uranium One and things like that, more than to go after Trump-Russia collusion in 2016.

PERINO: Not Uranium One again.

WATTERS: Hey, I didn’t bring it up. That was Bob Barr.

PERINO: -- but, speaking of President Trump meeting with Bill Barr, he was asked about that. Let’s play that sound and we will get Juan to react.


BARR: The president wanted to know yes, oh, you know Bob Mueller. How well do you know Bob Mueller? And I told him how well I knew Bob Mueller and I said Bob is a straight shooter and should be dealt with as such. And he said something to the effect like so, are you envisioning some role here? And I said, you know, actually, Mr. President, right now I couldn’t do it. My personal and my professional obligations are such that I’m unable to do it.


PERINO: And Juan, in another exchange, Mr. Barr said that he does not believe Bob Mueller would ever be involved in a witch hunt. So, do you think Democrats will be satisfied with his hearing today?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST: No. You know, to me, this is about Trump wants to control the Justice Department. I think that’s why he forced out Jeff Sessions, who was a Trump loyalist but had recused himself. So I think the standards, Dana, for the Democrats was if the ethics officials come to you and say Mr. Attorney General, we think you should recuse yourself. Will you abide by their findings? And he said no.

He said he would go with his own sense of whether or not he should be recused. Similarly and I think this is the big point, it’s not a matter of, you know, the hate anybody club. There was a question about whether or not he will release the report, the Mueller report.

And he said, you know what, the way that we deal with I think what they are called, declination memos, where they decline to prosecute somebody, is we don’t go out and talk about them.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: And so we may not release all of it. Well, guess what, the polls are pretty clear on this. It’s like a majority of Americans say his number one job should be release whatever Mueller finds. Don’t cover it up. Don’t let Giuliani edit it. Put it out there for the American people and he refuses to say that.

PERINO: And there have been Republican senators, Katie, who have said that they’d also want that report to be public, but it will be the attorney general’s decision.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, it’s been such a big topic of conversation for the country for the last two years, that it should be released in full as much as possible, but he didn’t say he wasn’t releasing it for reasons of personal or political purposes or because the president doesn’t necessarily want it released.

He specifically referred back to the rules and regulations that are in the Justice Department when it comes to releasing reports like this. But one thing I caught today that I found interesting is I think there was a bit of a missed opportunity because everything was so focused on Russia that all of these other issues kind of got ignored.

For example, there were questions today about Bill Barr’s role as attorney general in the 1990s when there was a lot of crime. There is a reason why violent crime and murder in America today has been cut in half. It’s a result of a lot of the policies that they put into place.

And as you have Cory Booker and Kamala Harris and President Trump pushing forward with criminal justice reform, which is important, he really did a good job of saying, look, I’m not going to apologize for the things that we did in the 1990s to bring down the crime across cities in America.

At the same time, I am open to the idea that maybe we can pull some -- pull back on some of those policies now that we have solved a lot of the problem in places like New York and Washington, D.C. Chicago came up as one place where it hasn’t been solved. So, that’s an issue that will be ongoing for the next 10 to 20 years and I don’t think that they really focused on it enough.

PERINO: He also said, Greg that he would not target marijuana, like not the laws and they mess with what the states are trying to do. That’s a good thing.

GUTFELD: Yes, I guess it’s a good thing. Well, and I think that was the other problem with Sessions, was that I think that he wasn’t going to go for it. I think that’s the direction of the country. And I do agree that we have to be really careful about talking about how great this police reform thing is going to be because the facts are the facts.

We saw dramatic reduction in crime, and that had something to do with policies that we are now kind of saying, well maybe we don’t need them anymore. And that’s the thing that always happens. After something works, we all started thinking maybe we don’t need it anymore like walls. We don’t need any walls anymore.

PERINO: Yes. Like the windows theory --


WATTERS: But he was very strong on border security. He said he supported barriers where they were necessary and he was also very against sanctuary cities. So I thought everybody watching should be pretty pleased with this guy.

WILLIAMS: You know, one thing I would say on this, from the Democrat’s perspective, he is not Matt Whitaker.


WILLIAMS: So, you know what --

PERINO: Maybe that was the strategy all along.

WILLIAMS: I think so.

PEPRINO: All right, a new caravan with 2,000 migrants now heading for our southern border. The latest on the president battle for border security, next.


WILLIAMS: It is now day 25 of the partial government shutdown over border wall funding, the president pointing to a new migrant caravan on its way from Honduras heading toward the USA. Meanwhile, a new push from the president for border security -- he tweeted the following, “A drone flying around will not stop them. Only a wall will work.”

Also, Democrats declining Trump’s invitation to the White House today, a small group. He wanted a working lunch with Democrats and Republicans to try to solve the crisis. While neither side is budging, the Senate has now created though a gang of 20 people -- 10 Republicans, 10 Democrats who are intent on trying to resolve the issue.

So Jesse, today I was thinking to myself, we’ve seen the president talk about this new caravan. We’ve also seen him talk about yesterday the Hispanic caucus retreat in Puerto Rico. And then you had him sharing an article by an anonymous senior administration official saying these government workers are not loyal. They are not good people. I mean, he is on a campaign, but the polls don’t seem to move.

WATTERS: Well, I think he’s winning the argument on the logic of the wall and that’s pretty clear, that walls work. You had Obama’s chief Border Patrol agent say that walls work. Jim Acosta accidentally prove that walls work. So, the country gets that.

But the problem is that he took ownership of the shut down a month ago. And the Democrats are just going to wait him out because they believe that they have the politics on their side. On the caravan, I talked to our chief caravan correspondence Griff Jenkins today. He said it’s about 1,000 or 2,000 strong.

And by Friday or Saturday, it’s going to head to the border with Guatemala and Mexico where we saw all that violence last time where they tried to come over. Interestingly, out of the El Chapo case in Brooklyn, we have found out that El Chapo bribed the president of Mexico $100 million, the last president of Mexico, the one that just left office. But think about how corrupt that is. He’s taking money from El Chapo.

PAVLICH: Not surprised.

WATTERS: And this is the kind of country you’re dealing with on the southern border.

WILLIAMS: But we should be fair to the former president of Mexico. We don’t know that that’s true.

WATTERS: Maybe it was a down payment for the wall. I don’t know Juan. Who knows?

WILLIAMS: All right. So, Katie, one of the realities of the caravan is this time, as last time, you end up with people approaching, as Jesse was saying, the Mexican border. Mexico granted people in the last caravan humanitarian visas. Most of them remained there.

A whole bunch of them went back to Latin America, other countries. So, how do you view this new caravan? Is this an invasion or is this a publicity effort to try to row support for the wall by the president?

PAVLICH: I don’t think that the caravan is a publicity stunt by the president. I think that they’re making this journey because they believe that Democrats are going to allow them to come in because they don’t believe in walls and they don’t believe in any kind of other structure to stop them from coming in.

They are getting impatient and jumping the border wall, what we have of it, anyway, which by the way, people who come to this country legally are also inpatient but they do it and they take the time and it takes 5 to 10 years for it to happen.

But if you listen to what DHS is saying, what the ICE agents and Border Patrol agents are saying. These caravans are violent. It’s the kind of violence they haven’t seen before. And the new incoming Mexican president is actually looking to put more barriers on the southern border with Mexico to stop this from happening.

WATTERS: That’s immoral, Katie. How dare they?

PAVLICH: Totally immoral if you can’t handle it. But that’s, you know, they are going to keep coming until you stop them. There is no reason why not.

WILLIAMS: All right, and Dana, let’s talk for a second about the lunch today or the lunch that didn’t happen. The president tried to invite some - - what he described or the White House described as moderate Democrats, because he wanted to try to get around Pelosi and the leadership. But it looked like Pelosi held those people in place. They didn’t go.

PERINO: Right. So, groups are stronger when they stick together. And so far the Republicans are sticking together and the Democrats are sticking together. So we are at quite an impasse. I thought that maybe you would start to see some Democrats.

Remember Cher last week? She tweeted the thing saying, “This isn’t worth it. Just give him the $5 billion for the wall. Let these workers get back to work for the government.” I thought that might like pick up some steam but so far, no dice.

I do think though on this issue with the caravan, people are on the move all around the world. This is not just happening at our southern border. That is why you have these problems in Europe. I think they had the big Brexit issue today.

People are leaving because their governments are failing. And there’s a bigger conversation that needs to be happening. There is a $5 billion squabble. It’s a little bit petty compared to what is really going on.

WILLIAMS: I think that’s a really important point.

PERINO: Thank you.


GUTFELD: It’s an OK point.

PERINO: It’s a great point.



GUTFELD: Let’s not like make it a great point, OK.

WILLIAMS: Don’t do that.

GUTFELD: No, let’s not do that.

WILLIAMS: Because her ego --

GUTFELD: Yes, I have --

WILLAIMS: I wanted to raise the point with you about McConnell.

GUTFELD: But I have three great points. Yes.

WATTERS: We’ll be the judge of that.

GUTFELD: I don’t want to talk about McConnell.

WILLIAMS: -- lots of great points, Greg. Let me -- so what happens is you get a situation where McConnell is blocking a vote on the House package to re-open the government. Meanwhile --

PERINO: Because the president won’t sign it so why should he do that.

WILLIAMS: That’s what McConnell said

GUTFELD: That is a great point.

PERINO: Thank you. Thank you.

WILLIAMS: But meanwhile, the president and the White House are saying they are going to bring back half of the IRS agents.


WILLIAMS: So it’s like he’s deciding which part of the government stay shut even as he decides and declares the government is -- a third of the government should be shut.

GUTFELD: Yes. I have lost interest in that part. I want to make three interesting points here. I’m going to defend the caravan, number one, because you can’t blame them for like, say, trying to go into California when you start offering them incentives like saying, hey, the taxpayers are going to pay for your insurance for illegal immigrants until you are 26.

And if anyone happens to be a criminal, don’t worry about it. We have ample sanctuary cities ready for you so, we are putting our citizens at risk. Hopefully, that if the people who get here survive, they’ll vote Democrat. So I see the incentives as a huge problem.

Number two, I’m wondering what the media is going to do about this incoming caravan because the initial caravan, remember, they called that a humanitarian crisis. And then when President Trump jumped in and said it was a humanitarian crisis, they said no, it wasn’t. It wasn’t at all. They mocked it.

Now, you have a humanitarian crisis. There are kids coming. Kids could be hurt. Kids could die. Are they going to make fun of that or are they going to call it a crisis? Anyway, I also want to defend Mexico. We talked about the drugs coming in. I think we also need to face the facts of the demand.


GUTFELD: Like, it’s not just about Mexico. It’s about the demand, our demand. As long as we keep wanting this stuff, they are going to keep bringing it. And the interesting thing is, because we started growing our own marijuana here, that’s hurt Mexican’s business which is why they are not doing opiates. So, legalize the stuff, it will go away.

WILLIAMS: You ain’t blowing smoke, brother.

GUTFELD: I will later.

WILLIAMS: The president hosting the Clemson football team last night. He fed the players fast food. Why his critics are calling it a major fail McFail. (Inaudible)


WATTERS: President Trump hosted the college football national champion Clemson Tigers last night, but due to the shutdown, food options at the White House were limited. So, Trump ordered and personally paid for a massive spread of fast food.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Do we have no food for you, because we have a shut down or do we give you some little quick salads that the First Lady will make along with the Second Lady. They will make some salads. And I said you guys aren’t into salads. We have Big Macs, we have quarter pounders with cheese we have everything I like that you like.


WATTERS: No good deed goes unpunished and it didn’t take long for the Trump haters to start criticizing the event, starting with calling Trump sexist.


JOAN WALSH, THE NATION CORRESPONDENT: That’s appalling. It seemed to me like the president will not be happy until there’s not one single female Republican voter in the country. It’s incredibly sexist. We aren’t all here to make salads for men.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is one of those things were sometimes what people say when they are being funny exposes exactly who they are and what they think.


WATTERS: Then there is former NFL running back Reggie Bush. He took to twitter to vent his frustration saying the Clemson players deserve better, and that the meal was a huge slap in the face. And of course the late-night hosts didn’t want to miss an opportunity to take their own shots at Trump.


SETH MEYERS, LATE NIGHT HOST: Do you think he’s being so sly, normally I would have a salad for dinner on Monday but they told me they only eat every fast food.

JIMMY KIMMELL, LATE NIGHT SHOW HOST: He’s paying the check so he had to get the cheapest food they could find.

STEPHEN COLBERT, LATE NIGHT SHOW HOST: Is it possible you are just projecting your favorite foods onto them? We are going to eat all of their favorite foods, burgers, KFC, taco bowls, two scoops of ice cream. We are going to watch their favorite movie, the 2016 election results.


WATTERS: That’s my favorite movie too. Greg, people in the media don’t like this, but all the Clemson players loved it. They went back for seconds.

GUTFELD: OK, this is fantastic. The idea that they believe that saying a woman makes a salad is sexist, that again -- the assumption is in Joan Walsh’s head and then she projects it to other people like she hears salad, she goes sexist, that’s appalling. What a bunch of losers. I mean, these are people that have become the Dean Wormer’s of the world. They can’t handle any fun, and Trump knows that.

He knows the best revenge is to rub the fun in people’s faces. And what Trump did was he re-created the dream every young man has. Imagine you have to go to some formal event and you are sitting on a bus and you are going like --

PERINO: Don’t know what fork to use.

GUTFELD: Yes, and they are going like, what are they going to serve? I always know this, after we go to a formal dinner or whatever, we are going to In-n-Out burger or we’re going to Jack-in-the-Box.

WATTERS: Because you are still hungry.

GUTFELD: We are still hungry. But in this case, Trump knew that. They showed up. They actually took food home. They put food in their pockets. That was great. He’s awesome. I love it.

WATTERS: Greg, have some nuggets.

GUTFELD: No, because I got a colonoscopy tomorrow.

WATTERS: OK, that was too much information.

GUTFELD: I can’t eat any food. I’ve been drinking bullion all day.

WATTERS: All right, Katie, have a quarter pounder. Tell me what you think about this fast food.

PAVLICH: I think it’s awesome. These guys are college students. Free food for anybody in college should be something amazing. What do they expect? They don’t want some dried out chicken and asparagus they serve at all of these fancy events.

WATTERS: Yes. You don’t need silverware for a Big Mac.

PAVLICH: And they are making fun of Trump for serving food he likes. He actually said that yesterday. He said, I like the American food. You like the best American food. We are all going to have great food. We’re not going to let you go hungry. I think it’s awesome. And my favorite part was the French Fries in the presidential seal cups.

WATTERS: Class all the way.

PAVLICH: It was very classy.

WATTERS: Juan, what do you think here? If Obama did this, they’d love it.

WILLIAMS: Look, everybody likes burgers. That’s the only big thing about that. It’s that you guys are so wrong. I mean, actually, if you go to an event at the White House and eat the food, the food is usually spectacular. I mean, it’s like unbelievable. And even --

PAVLICH: Is it as good as McDonald’s, Juan?

WILLIAMS: -- the cookies are great.

No, you know, to me, this was Willy Wonka at the chocolate factory. Right? And he’s got exactly what he wants, which is fast food. It’s not about them. It’s about him, which is for the narcissist.

WATTERS: Wait, why isn’t it about the players, Juan?

GUTFELD: McDonald’s is the product of narcissism.

WATTERS: Why isn’t it about the players?

WILLIAMS: I’ll tell you what. If he was about the players, I think he would’ve --

PAVLICH: Taken orders.

WILLIAMS: -- forked over a few more bucks and given them something memorable to eat.

WATTERS: This is memorable. It’s all over television, all over their Instagram pics.

WILLIAMS: As a joke.

WATTERS: Juan, you can’t have any fries.

WILLIAMS: I don’t want -- I don’t mind.

WATTERS: No fries. I’m going to take the fish filet, too, away from you.

WILLIAMS: Those French fries are great, but did you see --

GUTFELD: They are great.

WILLIAMS: Did you see that, I think it’s Burger King, said that he can’t even spell. They’re out of “hamberders” or whatever he typed.

GUTFELD: They got him on that one.

WATTERS: So negative, Williams.

GUTFELD: Another clear victory.

PAVLICH: Why are they attacking middle America?

WILLIAMS: Middle America?

PAVLICH: Like, America loves fast food, and they’re acting like it’s the worst thing ever.

WILLIAMS: I didn’t say it was the worst thing ever. I just don’t think -- and I think Reggie Bush said this.

PAVLICH: You know, maybe Reggie Bush can pay for it.

WILLIAMS: You know, he could have actually served them some good food at the White House.

GUTFELD: Another -- another Bushie.

WATTERS: I think a Whopper is good food -- Dana.

PERINO: So I -- here’s the thing. One of the best things that President Trump gave them last night is a story that they will tell for the rest of their lives.

WATTERS: Exactly.

PERINO: Everybody will go, “Tell me about that time. Dad, tell us again about that time you went to the White House, and the president served you McDonald’s.” And it’s going to be, like -- that’s honestly one of the best things you could have given.

GUTFELD: You got the buttermilk chicken.

WATTERS: They had the McDonald’s, and they had Wendy’s, and they had Burger King.

PERINO: Also, I would have served salads.

WATTERS: You would have served salads?

GUTFELD: I’m having clear JELL-O tonight.

WATTERS: It wouldn’t have been eaten at all.