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Larry Cockell Testimony Excerpts

October 3, 1998 GMT

Excerpts from July 23, 1998, grand jury testimony of Secret Service agent Larry Cockell, head of President Clinton’s protective detail:

Q: ... I’m going to shift gears again, and ask you if you know a woman by the name of Monica Lewinsky?

A: Only by media stories and what I have overheard, not personally.

Q: And when you talk about ``by media,″ I presume you’re referring to the story that broke roughly the middle of January of this year, 1998; is that correct?

A: That’s correct.

Q: So you did not know her before January 15th of 1998?

A: No, sir, I did not.

Q: Do you recall ever hearing her name before January 15th of 1998?

A: No, sir, I did not.

Q: Do you ever see her before January 15th of 1998?

A: I’ve never seen her in person; no, sir.

... Q: Have you every had occasion to see her on closed-circuit TV within the White House compound?

A: No, sir, I have not.

Q: Do you have any knowledge that Ms. Lewinsky was ever alone with the president?

A: No, sir, I do not.

Q: Did you ever hear from anyone else that Ms. Lewinsky was ever alone with the president?

A: Yes, sir, I did.

... Both were indirect statements about it. But one was directly related to me from an employee, a subordinate; and one was related to me through a supervisor of an employee.

Q: What are the names of those two individuals?

A: The employee who ... brought it to my attention was Nelson Garbito.

... He is an agent assigned to the Presidential Protective Division.

Q: How many times did you discuss Ms. Lewinsky with him?

A: One. And there was not a specific discussion using her name. But he related a circumstance to me.

Q: Why don’t you just tell us about that?

A: I am not exactly sure when the conversation happened, but it was subsequent to the disclosure in the press of the Monica Lewinsky story.

Mr. Garbito came to me and told _ what he related to me was, ``You are familiar with″ _ and I’m paraphrasing. I can’t directly quote him.

``You are familiar with the statements made by Lou Fox, who was a Uniformed Division officer.″ He said. ``I think I was working that day.″

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... Q: And your recollection today is that this conversation with Mr. Garbito would have been approximately the time that ... Mr. Fox made some disclosures that were in the public media? ...

A: Yes, sir. I do not know the specific date.

... Q: You mentioned a moment ago that there were two people with whom you had discussed this.

A: And one was not a direct discussion with the employee.

Q: Tell us about that episode.

A: I was called by _ and again, I can’t be specific _ either one or two people in supervisory capacity over one of our divisions, where Robert Ferguson worked.

They related to me that they had been informed that Mr. Ferguson had made statements about seeing Monica Lewinsky in the Oval Office and that he was going to convey that information.

Q: To whom?

A: To the special _ to the independent counsel, through an attorney.

Q: Now this is someone other than Mr. Ferguson telling you this?

A: That is correct.

Q: And who is that?

A: It was either the agent in charge of our Special Services Division _ his name is Peter Schwartz _ or one of the supervisors of Special Services Division, Brian Moravek. ...

... Q: Just so we understand, prior to Ms. Lewinsky’s name becoming public in January of this year, you had never heard her name before?

A: No, sir, I had not.

Q: And everything that you’ve told us about her is information that’s come to you either from the media or the episodes that you’ve just described? ...

A: That’s not exactly correct.

... I was present during the deposition that the president gave, I believe on January 17th, where the name _ the first time I heard the name Monica Lewinsky.

... Q: How were you chosen to attend with him?

A: The agent in charge was out of town at the time. I was the deputy special agent in charge.

There were some sensitivities that we were concerned about _ for instance, that information might be leaked and the Secret Service identified as a source _ so I decided that I would sit through the deposition myself.

... Q: Were there other Secret Service agents in there, as well?

A: No, sir, there were not.

... Q: ... Do you recall the president testifying on the issue of whether he and Ms. Lewinsky had ever been alone?

A: I don’t recall specific facts from the deposition, and I don’t want to take anything out of context and represent here that I do.

... Q: And, as you sit here today, do you know whether it’s true or not that the president was ever alone with Ms. Lewinsky?

A: No, sir, I do not know if that is true or not.

... Q: Lastly, do you have, with regard to the Lewinsky matter, do you have any other relevant information? ...

A: No, sir, I do not.